I pose a question to YOU!

[TLCM]

Ok, there aren't many serious topics on this 'ere board but here's one.

Is Australia becoming Americanised?
(I was on anouther board and people were really getting pationate so on the eve of war I'm asking you, is it?)

[ALYCESAN]

yeah in a way i think it is.
i mean there was no real threat to our country so why are our troops being sent to the gulf?and what is the point of voting if john howard wont listen to the australian people...why doesnt he go and fight the war himself if he is so keen to fight iraq.

[skyline girl]

lets start by thinking about all the Australian people
who were innocently having a good time in Bali and
that died or were badly scarred for life. Dont get me
wrong i am not at all saying war is the way to go,who
wants innocent people killing other innocent people who are defending their country, but we have now become involved wether we like it or not, what else
are we to do !!!!!!!!!!!! Alot of innocent peolpe have
already died how many more with there be?

[ell]

howard is just a pawn in the war that little georgey boy is finishing off for his daddy

and yes we are becoming amercanised!

[captain heinemann]

of course australia is becoming americanised, that how howard wants it. most western countries are becoming more american because theres no other course to take american is like the super power of the world and they manipulate and dictate events. true many people died at bali and s11 but how many MORE died in afghanistan from american bombing? are you saying that innocent lives will be lost but there only innocent if they are american or australian?
i think the remark of howard going off and fighting them is in some ways true but obviously not going to work. just because a leader wants something to happen doesnt mean he should go do it becuse then he wouldnt be a leader he'd be dead: but that does create conflict in my mind.. howard out on the battlefield actually seeing the affect of all the fucked up things he says and does
a war on iraq is bad in anyway but its not like a war isn't already going on there. america are constantly bombing iraq but its just ignored by the news and public becasue america has such a firm grasp on world news and what we as citizens know and anyway america only want war not so as to destroy the 'axis of evil' its just so they can have the control on the oil (i mean look how they acted when south korea started harping on about nuclear weapons they barely gave a fuck). and has anyone thoguht about the fact that america are saying they would attack iraq so as to rid them of nuclear weapons, 1) america has nuclear weapons but no one gives a fuck about that and 2) if iraq have nuclear weapons and america attacks them wouldn't the first course of action just be to use the nuclear weapons?
well thats waht id do if i was in that posistion or if i was them and had their mentality
anyway ive crapped on enough about crap and answered the question in wayb to much detail but heres another question:
what do ppl think about john howard and his refugee policy?

[sam]

I really don't think Oil prices is all there is to it. It's taking a lot of attention away from their inability to find Osama Bin Laden, or a lot of powerful figures in the Al Qaeda group..and let's not forget, in the Gulf war Saddam went after George's dad.

[jeb_rocks]

I agree with "heinemann", about the fact that the USA have atomic bombs and no one cares, i think the reason no one cares is because America is not a terrorist country (well the majiority). Gorge Bush thinks that he is in the right because he is fighting against the "terrorists". I don't think he realises that "two wrongs don't make a right", terrorists crashed a plane in to the World Trade Centre, then the Sari club in Bali so now he is going to bomb Iraq. Australian troups are going to the gulf because we (as Australian's) need America, we are alli countries. If anything happened in Australia, due to terrorism (god forbid), we would need the USA to help us out, there country is alot bigger then ours so we need them.

I do not agree with what Gorge Bush plans to do, but i supose something has to be done. That is my oppinion anyway

[michael]

i cant be bothered getting into a full-blown reply at the moment..so i'll just address one thing..

re: skyline girl's comments..
the Bali attacks have nothing to do with war on iraq, besides providing the government with a reason to give fear to the australian people by creating false links between the two events.
There's not even a link between Iraq and any terrorist organisation involved in the S11 or bali attacks.
In 1990 Osama bin Laden offered the Saudi Government the use of Al Qaeda to remove Iraqi forces from Kuwait. Saddam Hussein is a vengeful man and will not suddenly create ties with a group that tried to oust him, let alone share weapons with them when he might be the first target of them.

[bossman]

Hmm, whether we should go to war on Iraq? We could sit back and do nothing, hoping he will go away after all, all those iraqi asylum seekers couldn't be fleeing from him could they? Seeing how he is such a nice person and all that. The terroism link is a bit stretched but they are one of the few offensive tools available to him. I believe he has supported them but he also knows the dangers in dealing with islamic fundamentalists. Just look at Iran and afghanistan. Of course he has his WMD's, so does the americans but he is more likely to use them. He did this in the war against Iran and against the kurds. If the UN had any guts we wouldn't be in this position again. They have let him off again and again.
Does he pose a threat to australia? On his own..no, but we, like the rest of the world need a stable middle east. He is a destablising influence and that can have a ripple effect, especially in our region. What I find most interesting is the lack of effort from his neighbours to put pressure on him to fully cooperate. After all, it would make anyone nervous having a few Carrier Battlr Groups off your coast.
If you belive the US's motives are purely about oil, well my town is looking for a new idiot. Yes the flow of Iraqi oil will help the us economy but its stupid to think Texaco and Exxon are going to roll in and set up shop. The US would find itself alone very quickly. Opening up iraq's oil is the only way a post-saddam iraq could get back on its feet economically.
Seeing all I believe Saddam should be toppled from power but who to replace him? His sons are reported to be mentaly imbalanced. The Iraqi opposition can't seem to form an alliance with each other. Maybe an Interfet style operation could take place until free elections can be orgaisedl

[captain heinemann]

okay it isn't only about oil... just mostly. even nelson mandela has publicly stated that he thinks it is.
the whole american economy is based on conflict. their economy was doing shit until bush started crapping on about 'the war on terror' and 'the axis of evil'. (on another point completely unconnected did anyone see the weeklydailyshow like.. two weeks ago when some guy was saying to him it semed more like a duet of evil...twas funny) there whole happy way of life totally thrives on having buckets of money and if they off putting tax dollars into buying guns or making guns then their making money.
im not saying nothing should be done i mean i think what sadam does his bad and no way in fricking hell would i want to live in iraq but what does that have to do with america? so what if we think their culture is crap and the things they do are crap and what they do is crap. yeah i agree that alot of what saddam and al quaeda (im sure i spelt THAT wrong) do is really wrong and i really wish it didn't happen but at the same time.. we are judging them by our western standards of things and saying oh what they do is wrong cos its not the same as us, but who are we to judge? what right do we have? who the fuck do america think they are? i mean they have the fucking death penalty and they bitch about peoples hands being cut off. okay if i lived in i dont' know..singapore (somewhere FOREIGN, there all the same) and they give people like the death penalty for drug smuggling well i think thats crap and if i could id say HEY DUDE THAT SUCKS! (just like that) but it's totally not my right to.
it's like bush is on this major power trip, when he was texas govenor more ppl got the death penalty than any other state. its like: wow my father was important so i'll use that to decide life or death on people. i think that some of the crimes people commit are awful and cruel and racist (like timothy macbae) but it still made me feel really sad that he was dead just because some guy in a suit who had never met this guy and didn't know anything about him could decide he deserved to die.
there was this case of a guy in america who was sent to death row because apparently he'd gone to his girlfriends house and found her with his best mate and stabbed them both to death and he was going to be given the chair or something anymore so hes off and dead and then like five years later some guy comes forward and was like no he didn't do it we were off together we were lovers. and he had tons of proof and stuff but the guy hadn't come forward becasue he'd been afraid of the consequences of being gay.
i know im going completely off topic but i kind of wanted to get my thoughts into the one ramble.
i just think that all death is wrong and bush is saying oh these ppl are evil cos they do this but he does so much stuff that to me is 'evil.' hes tried to create this sort of black and white, good and evil thing where it doesn't exist, shades of gray!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
okay my incomplete ramblings are done, until next time.

[sam]

Bossman hit the money. Unfortunately, I think something does need to be done about Hussein. But at least let's wait for UN sanctioning.

[Lucmeister]

this could of been an interesting thread if people answered the actual question, instead its become a useless debate.

[michael]

Lucmeister said:

this could of been an interesting thread if people answered the actual question, instead its become a useless debate.

Fucking hell, are you still alive?
the discussion evolved, maybe you should try it, Cro-Magnon.

[malloy]

Not being a smart arse but America is only slightly bigger than Aus. It's just that USA is more populated. Also John Howard is more or less taking the situation as if it will lead onto the worst thing that he can imagine. Therefore he shows the US our support, cos god alone knows if AUS was attacked we wouldn't stand a chance. Our army, airforce and navy is too small to handle an attack on AUS without the support of others. So why not back one of the most powerful forces, the US. I don't agree with it, but in a way i can also see that John Howard is trying to provide for our country and hopefully get support in defense if we're ever attacked. Even though i know fuck all about political issues with war, but i have read that in economical times where countries are struggling with exports and prices of imports are bringing their economy down, a war has bought a country back form recessions and depressions. We all know that the US economy hasn't been that strong for a while and how power hungry George Bush is. No offense to Americans but POWER is the key to everything. America wants to be the No.1 power of the world, they want to control everything. This power issue tied in with ecenomical situations, religion, oil, weapons and attacks on innocent people of America is surely going to make any president kinda pissed off and wanting revenge.
My opinion to the first asked question: Yes i think Australia is becoming Americanised, mainly because a majority of people idolise and try to be stereotypical of what a majority think is cool. American music, clothing styles, violence, attitudes, way of life etc. It's in our face 24/7, on the radio on TV, on the internet. How can we not become Americanised when thats all we see.
I stand with the minority though, i refuse to follow the herd. I am who i wanna be, im not an image on TV

[captain heinemann]

off the topic (and lucmeister you a dickhead...Cro-Magnon )
about following crowds and what we see on tv i've started seeing ppl following this other sort of image of 'cool'
its the : im going to smoke (nicotine) and i'm going to be a vegetrian and I think I might get dreads too (or dye my hair) and go to anti war protests and all that shit.
i got noting wrong with any of it except smoking but.... people are saying I'm cool, I'm different to everyone else I'm an individual and it's like, well, no your not, your dressed like everyone else and you do everything the same as everyone else.
but you cant say that cos everyone gets shitty