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Post by sarah on Apr 20, 2003 2:50:51 GMT -5
i was reading an article the other day that said cd sales have dropped 35% in the past year due to the downloading and burning of mp3s.
who here's got a cd burner? has anyone actually downloaded full new albums and burnt them? who's more likely to download a new song than buy a single from a record shop?
you know it's getting kinda ridiculous when a band like the white stripes releases it's promo copies of elephant on vinyl purely to stop it getting distributed, and still it makes it's way out there. the entire radiohead album - aptly titled hail to the thief - isn't even released yet, and suspected-thousands of people already have the entire thing in full. placebo put a special technology to work on their latest, sleeping with ghosts to prevent it being burnt, and yet all you have to do is hit kazaa and you can find the entire thing for download via mp3. madonna's record company put out fake files of her new songs on download sites, with her recorded voice saying "what the fuck do you think you're doing" - and on the weekend, madonna.com got hacked, every single song off american life got put up for download, and was accompanied by the message "this is what the fuck i think i'm doing". no artist is immune.
i'm just interested to see how fully you guys participate in downloading mp3s and whether you feel any guilt about it... i agree with the argument that it's got a lot more people interested in music again, but for the smaller artists it's a potentially career-threatening activity, when people can just rip 'that song' and not even have to look into purchasing any of their often-independently-funded releases.
sorry for the long post.
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Post by josha on Apr 20, 2003 3:19:24 GMT -5
i download songs that i hear or a number of songs to listen to to decide if i like the album, if a friend burns lots of albums onto a cd on mp3, and i dont like most of the album but like some of it, i will burn the album, but that doesent happen much
most of my MP3's will go on a mix cd
I blame laziness from bands for the drop of there cds
perhaps if the band put more into the songs and the artwork, and possibly keep the price down, a lot more will be willing to purchase the cd. But these days bands are just all racing to see who can bring out the most albums in 3 months and what not instead of making a brilliant album.
Go back 10 years and beyond
Jeff Buckley
AC/DC
Pink Flloyd
Black Sabbath
Blah blah blah
They all spent fucking ages on there albums to make them actually an album people want to buy because there are 12 good songs on it
these days, bands like blink 182, superheist, radiohead (new album)
they plug one song and hope for it to sell albums, which does not work
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Post by michael on Apr 20, 2003 5:58:59 GMT -5
in general, those figures dont take into account a number of factors, generally finding it easier to blame on MP3s. just a few to think about.. - DVD sales have increased by massive amounts over the past few years and people are spending their money on DVD's rather than CD's. With many artists having DVD's, fans choose to buy them rather than CD's.
- I'm not sure if this particular stat is in the same boat, but most figures i've seen are taking overall music sales (over all formats) and they're being translated by newspapers, etc as 'CD sales'. I know one figure a year or so back showed the overall music sales down due to a decrease of Vinyl, Cassette and Music Video purchases, yet the CD sales was actually either up or only down by less than 1%
- The quality of releases arn't generally that great anyway. Maybe if the major record companies (who i believe these numbers are normally collected from) stopped pushing shit and released some good stuff, then people might buy it.
- I'm not sure on this one, but has there been an increase of a decrease in the number of actual releases over the past year? If you release less CD's, it makes it a hell of a lot harder to sell more.
- If the decline has been over the past year, do remember that it means 2002 (i assume)...In 2001 there was a number of tribute songs released after the S11 attacks which would add to music sales.
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Post by sarah on Apr 20, 2003 6:04:24 GMT -5
do you think people would buy dvds as opposed to getting cds though? enough of them to have an impact on the market i mean. i'd think dvds were generally something a fan bought as a secondary purchase to the album... not that i'd know, that's just how i'd think it would happen.
it was basically just this article that was going on about the number of songs downloaded this year, and how it was an estimated 35% drop in cd sales solely as a direct result of this. i'm not sure how they'd come up with that number but i do think it's a pretty dangerous thing to the industry.
josha's right though about quality releases - if a lot more artists put a lot more effort into artwork, maybe doing limited edition stuff, or just anything to make spending $25-$30 seem like a worthwhile thing, i don't think it'd be such a big problem.
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Post by michael on Apr 20, 2003 6:12:27 GMT -5
do you think people would buy dvds as opposed to getting cds though? enough of them to have an impact on the market i mean. i'd think dvds were generally something a fan bought as a secondary purchase to the album... not that i'd know, that's just how i'd think it would happen. ..well yeah, a lot of the music DVD's i own i've bought rather than an album by that band. There's certain bands i'd rather have a live DVD of than an album. And this isn't just about music DVD's, a lot of people who were just casual music fans would now buy DVD's as a source of entertainment rather than CDs. |
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Post by sarah on Apr 20, 2003 6:18:53 GMT -5
okay i see your point about the sales.
do you personally think early-leaked albums, mp3s and cd burning is an issue though? because regardless of the actual percentage, i think it's a given that this type of thing has had a detrimental affect to the industry and needs some sort of control.
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Post by michael on Apr 20, 2003 6:33:59 GMT -5
early leaked albums, i dont think is that much of an issue. regardless of wether an album gets leaked early or not you're still going to have 4 types of people:
1) those who'd buy the album regardless.
2) those who'd download it regardless. (rather than buy it)
3) those who'd download it to decide if it's worth buying.
4) those who wouldn't buy it at all.
..leaking an album doesn't really change that.
MP3's are good for some, bad for others. They can be great for exposure for smaller bands/labels, but as far as major labels go, they're probably a bad thing.
I think the music industry, in general, has missed out on a huge market opportunity with digital distribution. Maybe the internet is just what's needed to bring life to music with bands/genres that once were hard to find being far more accessible to all people.
Regardless of a decline in sales, i see the use of MP3s as a good thing for it opens up a whole new world of music to people and we are no longer fed on a diet of the shit that gets onto radio & tv.
(keep in mind, most bands i'm a fan of arn't on major labels so the decline of business for them isn't that much of a concern to me.)
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Post by criminally vulgar on Apr 20, 2003 7:23:08 GMT -5
umm josh they spent three years making their new album. how many people do you know that had the internet/cd burners 10 years ago, let alone when ac/dc were in their prime. your post is void. edit: you also have to take record label pressure for bands to release albums quick into consideration. its not nearly as black and white as you seem to think. |
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Post by josha on Apr 20, 2003 9:06:11 GMT -5
your void
ok i subtract the radiohead album and put on say..... echolalia, no feeling, no worrrrries m88
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Post by criminally vulgar on Apr 20, 2003 9:13:06 GMT -5
your void ok i subtract the radiohead album and put on say..... echolalia, no feeling, no worrrrries m88 ORRRRRRR in future you could actually do research before making points that have no validity. |
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Post by Daymond on Apr 20, 2003 12:40:51 GMT -5
Started by sarah | Post by michael
early leaked albums, i dont think is that much of an issue. regardless of wether an album gets leaked early or not you're still going to have 4 types of people:
1) those who'd buy the album regardless.
2) those who'd download it regardless. (rather than buy it)
3) those who'd download it to decide if it's worth buying.
4) those who wouldn't buy it at all.
..leaking an album doesn't really change that.
MP3's are good for some, bad for others. They can be great for exposure for smaller bands/labels, but as far as major labels go, they're probably a bad thing.
I think the music industry, in general, has missed out on a huge market opportunity with digital distribution. Maybe the internet is just what's needed to bring life to music with bands/genres that once were hard to find being far more accessible to all people.
Regardless of a decline in sales, i see the use of MP3s as a good thing for it opens up a whole new world of music to people and we are no longer fed on a diet of the shit that gets onto radio & tv.
(keep in mind, most bands i'm a fan of arn't on major labels so the decline of business for them isn't that much of a concern to me.)
I consider, & like wise Michael..
So burn "whatcha ya like"
if artists didn't want you stealing their work they'd protect it..
As we do if that's the way profit will flow
Tune into Nova 93.7FM
enjoi you will
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Post by TLCM on Apr 20, 2003 21:56:08 GMT -5
I'm not as educated as most on the cd burning thing, I've only ever burnt 3 cds, I don't have a burner. But I think more people are listening to music now that they are finding it cheaper and easier to find stuff. All it costs to burn a cd is 1.) the cost of a burner(if your friend doesn't have one) 2.) the cost of a blank cd. Compare that to the cost of a cd.
When people go onto download sites they are exposed to a more diverse group of artists, many of whome they had never heard of before, this gives the bands more exposure. Mabe if the listeners like them enough they will go to their shows. In this case the bands are winners, without the exposure mabe people wouldn't go to their shows, let alone buy their albums.
Alot of smaller bands probably can't count too much on album sales any way and get most of their money from gigs (see above).
Although a majority of the people do live in the cities, generally the people in the country have the same popular tastes (but it's funnier to see country kids act like they're from 'da hood'). Only thing is it's harder to get cds in the country, even large towns have shit all. I have to either go to Newcastle, Sydney or order in all my cds, rarely can I get them off the shelf locally. However what alot of kids find easier is just burning, they don't have to wait 3 months to go to the city and they don't have to wait 2 weeks + for a cd to come in.
Also laziness. You could either walk/ride/drive to the cd shop or press a button.
How many people are music fans? How many people would risk buying and album? Most people I know used to just get singles, and only if they had been flogged on the radio. This was because they aren't fans of any band and they didn't want to spend money on a risk. These people will almost never buy an album anyway.
Isn't music art not a commercial exploit?
You want to make money? Become a lawyer or high executive or open a large multi-national corperation, just get into a rich buisness thing.
What about mix tapes? Before cd burners weren't people just taping stuff off the radio? I've done that a million times.
Yeah, I feel sorry for the artists. Yeah I like album art work etc. I don't download and yeah I get pissed off at people stealing some artists cds. But what can you do? If the record companies are having such a hissy fit why don't they just get into the business themselves? Everyone knows the larger ones care less about the artists than the money they bring in.
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Post by agent pondscum on Apr 21, 2003 8:56:38 GMT -5
there are several cd's goin round with the copyright protection can be cracked, but most have an extra track, that provides the burnt copy with a dodgy record like sound quality.
all you do is find a copying program with a sound quality enhancer, and one that can create wave files, download the files to your computer and then transfer to your program! nice new burnt cd! i think burning of cd's can encourage cd purchases, i have heaps of burnt cd's which have been passed onto friends who now have copies of the originals etc etc. its a reality they have to face, it comes with all new technologies. like the VCR for example.
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Post by bossman on Apr 21, 2003 9:46:05 GMT -5
I don't know about the case here but previously it was CD Single sales that used to decrease but the word Single was always left out by the record company. i find little value in Singles, I only get them if its a band that I like (more of a collection thing) or if its a local band that im interested in. I hate it when you get a cd with the title track and the rest are remixes or live tracks. I just find that pointless.
But I agree with josh that the quality of mainstream releases have gone downhill. If record companies want people to buy cd's then they'll have to start improving the quality of releases. If the albums only got 2-3 good songs on there, of course ppl are going to use Mp3's. I personaly don't like the idea of copying an album that you like and not paying for it, that shows that your not a fan but if you want to check something out before you buy it thats fine.
There will always be the saga of copying. I know in software, Microsoft plans on doing some recognition stuff with DA (or AD) converters which has the potential to fuck up your computer if you use burnt copies.
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Post by slushpup on Apr 21, 2003 10:31:10 GMT -5
Like TLCM, Im not so informed about the mp3 thing...I've never downloaded whole albums before and nor will I ever. Something strikes me as that being wrong. Normally I use mp3s I download to get a sense of a band's material...to sort of try out their songs if I hear good things about them or love one of their tracks. I think a majority of the CDs I have Ive bought because of downloading a few songs as samples from that band.
i think mp3s can definately help out small and starting-out bands with getting their music heard and maybe establishing some sort of fanbase (however small...).
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